Natey & Katy: At the Movies
Natey & Katy are two friends who love movies and love talking about them. Join them on their cinematic journey!
Natey & Katy: At the Movies
Here’s Looking at You, Film: A Casablanca Review
Lucinda Sage Midgordon, a former theater instructor and passionate movie enthusiast, shares her expert insights into one of cinema's most celebrated films, "Casablanca." Ever wondered how a film with an incomplete script at the start of production could become such an enduring masterpiece? Lucinda takes us behind the scenes, revealing the dramatic structure and multifaceted themes that make "Casablanca" a timeless tale of love, sacrifice, and resistance against the backdrop of World War II. She expertly unravels the film's exploration of good versus evil and the complex web of personal relationships that continue to resonate with audiences.
Humphrey Bogart's transformation from his usual roles as a gangster to a romantic lead in "Casablanca" is nothing short of fascinating. We dive into his initial doubts and the cultural nuances of the era, including the notable age gap between him and Ingrid Bergman. While Bogart and Bergman were skeptical about the film's dialogue, their on-screen chemistry became legendary. Rick's character evolution is at the heart of this transformation, and we offer a fresh perspective on how these elements combined to deliver iconic lines that have stood the test of time.
We wrap up with a light-hearted celebration of "Casablanca's" most memorable quotes, including Claude Rains' witty line about gambling that adds a sprinkle of humor to the film's serious tone. Each line carries a weight that deepens with repeated viewings, and Lucinda helps us appreciate the layers of complexity within the characters, from the emotionally intelligent Victor Laszlo to the morally ambiguous roles. By examining the cultural context of the 1940s and the constraints of the Hays Code, we uncover the brilliance that allows "Casablanca" to maintain its classic status, captivating both first-time viewers and seasoned fans alike.
Check out Lucinda’s podcast, Story-Power: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/story-power/id1524657088
Hello everyone and welcome to a brand new episode of Nadie and Katie at the Movies. I'm your host, nathan aka Nadie, of course, and on today's episode, katie decide to flake again. I don't, I don't know what's up with her. She sometimes she decides to come on, and I should just change the show to be called Nadie and sometimes Katie at the Movies, because that's what that's what it's starting to feel like. But not to fear, my friends, it's not just me. On this episode, I did promise a special guest and that's exactly what we have. So, special guest, go ahead and introduce yourself, please.
Speaker 2:Hello, my name is Lucinda Sage Midgordon and I'm a former theater instructor and movie lover, and I'll let you introduce the movie we're talking about today.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Yeah, I've met Lucinda through Podmatchcom, which I kind of shamelessly plugged last episode. It's actually been really beneficial for us because we've been able to find some really cool guests to come on and add a little bit more depth to what Katie and I usually do. So today's episode is a classic, and when I say a classic I mean like one of those quintessential classic movies, and that is Casablanca. I remember watching this before, but I don't think I've ever watched it all the way through, which is crazy because I am a fan of the classics. But before we can get into our likes and dislikes, I got to go over the synopsis. A cynical expatriate American cafe owner struggles to decide whether or not to help his former lover and her fugitive husband escaped the Nazis in French Morocco.
Speaker 1:Casablanca stars Humphrey Bogart, ingrid Bergman, paul Heinrich and Claude Rains. This is just I mean just from the acting, from the actors, from the cast, from the story, from the feel, from just everything about this film just screams classic film. So, lucinda, I'm going to let you just dive into your thoughts about this film, because I remember I sent you our list, as I do with all our guests, and this was like the number one movie that you wanted to talk about because you said I believe you used it in a course that you taught before. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm, yes that's right.
Speaker 1:What was the course about believe you?
Speaker 2:used it in a course that you taught before. Is that right? Yes, that's right. What was the course about that you used this for? Oh, it was called Dramatic Structure, which is a really boring name for a course. That just means it's how plays and movies, because they're basically the same thing except extra visuals in movies, but the screenplays are basically the same and it's how it's structured and how does it get the theme across, or themes. The best stories have multiple themes and this is one of those has multiple themes. So it was one that I showed in that class and I had mostly students under 30 or around 30, 18 to 30 ish, and they really loved it. They loved it so, and that it's always at the top of almost all the lists, like one, two, three at the top of the lists movie lists movie lists.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is. This is high up on our on our imdb top 250 movies of all time, which is what katie and I have been using this entire season. And, like you said, this movie is just, I mean I can't, I can't say enough enough about it because it's just like I said before, it's the quintessential classic. I mean you got humphrey bogart, who was just known at that time as like the leading man, and Ingrid Bergman, I mean just classic beauty, classic, just presence in every scene that she's in.
Speaker 1:And the storyline, I mean there's, there's some twists and turns, like I remember when I, when I watched the first time, I didn't realize Spoiler alert, spoiler alert realize that she was actually married to Victor Laszlo. And yes, we will get into some spoilers because this movie has been around for ages. So if you don't really know about it, I do recommend watching it, and we'll get into our ratings a little later in the episode, but already I mean I just think this is perfect cinema, but the storyline is just so compelling. So what were some of the themes that you touched on with your students?
Speaker 2:Well, it has that whole good versus evil thing, with the Nazis and everybody else against them, except for Claude Rains, who is sort of the comic character. He's, you know, blows with the wind, you know. Whatever he even says that, whatever wind is blowing, I just go with it. So it's that. And Victor Laszlo is the head of this international group of resistance groups. In fact he's probably the one who created them.
Speaker 2:Even before the Nazis took over Poland, invaded Poland, he could probably see it coming and so he went around Europe and started all these cells of resistance movements and so he's a really important character. Paul Henry plays him, and then there are all of the people who are trying to escape the Nazis. And we get to see a couple of those stories a little bit. But the heart of the play, a movie, is the triangle of Rickick, ilsa and victor, with a little bit of claude raines stuck in there. He plays the prefect of police in the town, so he's not a military guy necessarily, he's police, so that's a little bit different than, but he does try to cater to the Nazis once they show up, and some of the things that are really interesting about this.
Speaker 2:It's sort of a lightning in a bottle kind of a movie because they didn't have a finished script when they started filming. I found out from reading internet movie database that the Pearl Harbor was on the 7th of December 1941 and the very next day. Somebody from Warners had known about this unproduced play called Everybody Goes to Ricks or something like that is the name of the the play, and they bought the rights to it the very next day, december 8th, and or at least they read it to buy the rights to it the very next day, december 8th, and or at least they read it to buy the rights for it the very next day. So they started filming shortly after Pearl Harbor and so it didn't come out, I don't think until January of 43, but they were making it during 1942.
Speaker 2:It's kind of unclear in the movie whether or not the Americans have entered the war yet. But Rick is this disaffected kind of doesn't really care about anybody else, he's just sort of walking through life, he's disconnected emotionally, until Elsa walks through his door and it's obvious right away to Victor that something has gone on between them, because they know each other's names already. And and another thing about the movie is that almost everybody in the movie was somebody who had escaped the nazis. So that scene where they have the dueling national anthems, those are real tears in those people's eyes because they had escaped Nazi Germany. Even the Nazis were all people who had escaped Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2:And the man who plays Major Strasser was very famous in Germany. And the man who plays Major Strasser was very famous in Germany. He was married to a Jew and Hitler wanted him to do you know, propaganda films and stuff and he refused. He was a definite anti-Nazi and the resistance people found out that he and his wife were going to be assassinated and they got him out of Germany. So he insisted always to play Germans because he wanted to show how horrible they were. So I have all these little, really interesting backstories like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really cool. I didn't know any of that and it kind of goes back to when Katie and I did the Great Dictator or the Dictator, the Great Dictator, with Charlie. Chaplin and how important that film was, because when he made that film they were like smack dab in the middle of it, or at least it had just started the war with, with Germany, and and to know that that with all that backstory of all the actors in Casablanca, I mean that was like smack dab in the middle of the war. As well.
Speaker 1:And so the fact that they're making this movie knowing the backlash that they might get from the Nazis, adolf Hitler and just everything else is going around, like you said, pearl Harbor, all this war that's surrounding this film, it's just, it makes you I mean it makes me appreciate the film even more and and how important it is in the history of film and why everyone should take the time to watch it, because it's just, yes, important piece of not just film history but history in general.
Speaker 1:and so, yeah, I mean that's awesome all that, all that information that you're able to use, um and and and one thing, one thing you talked about to. To kind of go back to the film itself, with, um, humphrey Bogart's character, rick, uh, it's. It's kind of funny and ironic that he constantly says to like at least to the male characters that he he doesn't stick his neck out for anybody, but then at the same breath.
Speaker 1:He always sticks his neck out, it seems, for the female characters like the, the woman who comes up to him comes up to him and asking for money or help with money to go to um, I think they're going trying to go to america too and he goes to the poker table and he basically helps the guy win all this money. Yeah, and then the same thing with Elsa too. Like at the end he helps her flee to America, and so I I thought that was kind of funny. I was talking to my dad, who loves the classics. He actually recommended, uh, the movie that we, that I reviewed this past Saturday, uh, lifeboat by Alfred Hitchcock, and so he's really into those classic films, and so I was talking to him about that and he found that really funny as well. But I think we have someone who is able to join us. I think she decided to actually show up, so let's see if she actually does, katie are you there?
Speaker 2:I have something to say about Humphrey Bogart when she joins us Well.
Speaker 1:I mean you can go ahead and share. Well, this is Humphrey Bogart when she joins us. I mean you can go ahead and share.
Speaker 2:Well, this is Humphrey Bogart's very first starring role as a romantic lead. He always played bad guys or gangsters or you know something like that, and so almost always. There's one movie that he did with Bette Davis where he was a good guy but he was a secondary character in that movie. So this is the first time, and I think there was a quote of him saying you know, one of the first scenes that they did was with him and Ilsa in Paris in the flashback, and he's like I have no idea how to do this, you know love stuff. And then, of course, a year or two later, he does the first of the four movies that he did with Lauren Bacall, so he became a romantic lead in this movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he does a great job with just the way he delivers his lines. You can hear the pain in his voice. You can see the pain in his facial expressions. Another, another little, I guess tidbit that I thought was really funny and somewhat weird. At times in the film they, you know, they read his dossier and they say that he's 37 years old and so he's playing a 37-year-old In real life. He's actually 43. And then Bergman in real life at the time was 27. And I don't know if her character is supposed to be 27 in the film, because there's a moment in one of the flashbacks where they're talking about where they were like why didn't I meet you 10 years ago? Or something like that. Right, like so where were you 10 years ago? And she says I was just getting my braces yeah I was out finding a job.
Speaker 1:So I'm like, right, I mean, I guess the age gap back in that time like didn't really matter as much, yeah, but it just it was kind of weird at times. So, katie, we're talking about casablanca. Oh, hi, joining us, by the way. Um, I apologize. When you listen to this episode later, you'll hear that I called you a flake um, um, I'm not just any flake, I'm a frosted flake, first of all. So did you did you take the time to actually watch casablanca?
Speaker 4:so yeah, I'm actually a flake of gold is what I am um casablanca. I've heard of that movie so you didn't watch it you've got to watch it. Um no, actually I was just. I'm gonna wait and listen to our episode and see if it's worthwhile. So do I need to be prepared for some spoilers?
Speaker 1:I mean yes, because this movie's been around forever and a day.
Speaker 2:I think we already said some, and I'm about to say some more.
Speaker 4:Okay Now and listen. Yeah, and our listeners know we do usually warn them. Actually, my best friend said she goes I don't listen to your episodes until I've watched the movie. So, yeah, maybe we'll have to think about putting our rating. You know we put our rating out, so you know you can kind of see our rating ahead of time. Yes, I'm really excited. I did watch like about 20 minutes of it and then realized I wasn't gonna be able to join y'all tonight so I did not finish it. But I'm really excited to hear your review. I won't interrupt more, but it sounds like a good one. Just based on the huge smiles that you guys can't see that are listening on these two faces, I think this means it was a good one. It's one of my favorites.
Speaker 2:I was going to say there are some other spoilers. Well, things behind the scenes. One is and this is a structural thing, like I used to teach, in dramatic structure, rick is the main character because he's the one that changes. It's his story, so he's the one that grows and changes the most. But he and Ingrid Bergman were trying to figure out how they could get out of the movie because they thought the dialogue was so hokey and they thought it was going to be a flop. And then now, of all the movies that AFIi you know they rate the lines for movies they're the castle block has the most lines that are quotable lines we typically do a quote at the end of our episode.
Speaker 4:But can you give me what you feel like are your most iconic? Again, I haven't seen the movies, I couldn't tell you any. What would be the most iconic that maybe the average person has heard reference somewhere?
Speaker 2:oh, here's looking at you, kid the the whole play it again, sam, is that they never say that?
Speaker 2:no uh, they do say, play it, sam, and they're talking about the song um, as time goes by, uh, which became really iconic, although it it had, it was a song that was already existing, but so they couldn't give it a, an oscar or anything, but people loved that song. Another thing that's so great about the movie is that, uh, paul heinrich's character is really an emotionally intelligent kind of a guy, because he's he is ilsa's husband but they haven't really been together very much because they got, they got married and only a few months later he got put into a concentration camp and then he was there for a year. Then she thought, thought he was dead. That's why she fell in love with that's when she fell in love with Humphrey Bogart. Then, the day that they were supposed to leave Paris together, she finds out her husband's alive. I mean, so it's like they haven't really had a chance to be married.
Speaker 2:But right, there's this really great conversation between the two men, humphrey Bogart and Paul Henry, and he says I know that you're in love with a woman and it. It might surprise you to know that I know we're in love with the same woman, but since no one's to blame, I don't blame you. You know, he knows that she probably fell in love with him when she thought he was dead. So it's like what guy would do that, you know? I mean, he's really it's. So. It shows how intelligent he was to set up all of these uh, cells of resistance movements around Europe and why he's such a threat to the nazis because he's really, really intelligent. So the other thing that I love about it is the connection between ingrid bergman and humphrey bogart, and they didn't really have an off-screen relationship at all. It was all on screen. All that chemistry was on screen.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was. It was great, it was and, and and. That was the part of the movie that I don't. I didn't remember. The first time I watched it, I didn't remember that, uh, elsa was actually married to victor, and because I I didn't get the, the romance between rick and her. That's why I'm glad we watched it for this list, because talking about it, talking about the background, talking about the history of the film, and then seeing it in the context of everything else that happens in the movie, it's just a great film.
Speaker 1:It really is. The story is just so good and the heartbreak at the end, even though you know it's coming you already know.
Speaker 4:Do I need to go? Do I need to go? I mean yes, I mean if you don't want to know the heartbreak at the end, even though you know it's coming, you already know.
Speaker 1:Do I need to go? Do I need to go? I mean yes, I mean, if you don't want to know the heartbreak at the end.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't, I don't think of it as a heartbreak and yeah, I'm going to have to talk about that. Yeah, take your ear pods out. Yeah, because Ilsa says to him you've got to make the decision. And I think she says that to him because he's the one who was wounded, emotionally wounded, and so she lets him make that decision. But after he has that conversation with Paul Henry, he I mean, it's obvious that he really did admire him when he first meets him. But he admires him even more and realizes, oh, I have got to let her go with him because he really does love her, but he hasn't had time to put any real attention into their relationship because he's so busy fighting the Nazis relationship, because he's so busy fighting the Nazis. So he knows, once the war is over, that Paul Henry's going to have time to actually show Belsa how much he loves her and win her back again. So, and plus, humphrey Bogart's going to go off and be a mercenary again, just like he was, you know, two or three times before.
Speaker 2:So another really interesting thing about the movie is even the Germans don't know why he can't go back to the United States, and I read in the internet movie database that the writers kept trying to figure out why can't he go back to the United States? And finally they just said you know what? We're not going to give a reason, we're just going to leave it like nobody knows. I can't go back. So, yeah, and you were talking about the young woman who's a refugee and he helps her husband win the money. Partly it's because Claude Rains we haven't talked too much about him.
Speaker 2:If a woman, a beautiful woman, wants to get out of Casablanca and go to the United States, then if she has sex with him, he'll give her the pass to get out. And that's what he's going to do with this young woman, and Humphrey Bogart just can't let that happen. And that's what he's gonna do with this young woman. And and humphrey bogart just can't let that happen because she's what? Maybe 18 or 19 or something. It's like he just it's too icky for him. You know which?
Speaker 1:is, which is funny, because I'm pretty sure ingrid bergman's character is supposed to be pretty young too.
Speaker 2:Just just just the way they talk to each other in the flashback yeah, well, she, but she's, uh, she's probably of age, though, right right, 21. She's older than 21, so she's, in it, considered to be an adult. So was there?
Speaker 1:was there anything about casablanca. I mean, we've already basically said that this is perfection when it comes to cinema, but was there anything that stuck out to you that maybe you didn't like about this movie?
Speaker 2:with, but it was 1942 when they were making this movie and you know you got the haze code thing going on and so you know she had to go with her husband and I think, being an actor director, thinking back her motives, she realized that he, that rick, needed to make the decision because he was the one who had been wounded.
Speaker 1:So so do you think, if they god forbid made a remake of casablanca today, do you think they may go with that route of her making the decision? Or do you think they I mean, do you think, out of classic purposes, that they would just stick with the original idea?
Speaker 2:They have thought about making remakes of it and everybody goes why? So it never flies. It never flies, yeah, and I don't know what they would do. But that's kind of part of the thing that's so great about it is, once he knows she loves him, he can go off and do what he needs to do. Yeah, it's all.
Speaker 1:he's healed pretty much when he knows that she really still loves him yeah, and, and I like, I like how they leave it open to you don't know. I mean, yes, him and louis, they well, I guess he calls him louis but uh, they walk off in into the fog and he's kind of left open to interpretation of what rick is going to do. I know you said he's going to go off and be a mercenary, as he was before, and it's one of those films that nowadays it, because of the popularity of it, it probably would get a sequel and they probably would continue the story of rick, which would be kind of interesting to see what he goes and does, you know on his own. But it's also one of those films. It's like you know what it's, it's perfect the way it is. It doesn't need anything continuing it.
Speaker 1:The story was told in a beautiful way and so it's just, it's just great and and I know I didn't really offer that much to this episode, so that's why, again, it's great that you came on to give us those background information. I think we basically summarized our feelings about this film. So do you want to go ahead and give this movie a rating?
Speaker 2:Well, I give it as many stars as it can get. I mean, I think on the AFI list it's always number two behind Citizen Kane on the overall list and it's usually number one on the romantic movie list.
Speaker 1:I would put this above Citizen Kane. Katie and I also reviewed that as well. I think so too. Yeah, we reviewed that, and I'm pretty sure we gave it our lowest rating. One of our lowest ratings was for Citizen Kane. We gave it a one out of six because I just didn't understand the hype of that film. But when it comes to Casablanca like the acting, like I said I mean everything I said before it's just a essential classic film and you just can't, yeah, get any better than humphrey bogart and ingrid bergman. You just can't, I know. And so I'm gonna give it our six out of six stars just because of it's just sheer perfection. So, katie, if you're still listening to this episode, go watch it, so we can, I guess, guess, talk about it, but just not record our conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, because I always love talking about movies. I don't care if I'm recording or not.
Speaker 1:Well, lucinda, thank you so much for coming on the show, and I know you have a podcast of your own, so so go ahead and tell our listeners how, what the name of that show is, what it's about and how people can find it.
Speaker 2:Okay, my podcast is story hyphen power. It's on all that. While it's on Spotify, it's on YouTube, apple, amazon I can't remember where it lives in, is where my um, where I produce it from, and it's also on my website, sage Woman Chronicles, on WordPress. So it's about four and a half years old. I started it in July of 2020. And I talk to people about stories, about the stories they're creating. I talk to artists and musicians and all kinds of people, but mostly I'm talking either about their own personal stories or the ones that they're creating. And I'm going to put a plug in for my sister and I are going to start a new youtube channel called classic cinema with the sage sisters in the new year and we will do basically what you do take one movie and analyze it that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll. We'll obviously share your podcast in the show notes and are on all of our social media. Thank you again for coming on the show and speaking of stories. Here is a little ear peek of what katie and I will hopefully katie and I will be talking about next week on the show your fame is well-deserved Spaniel. I don't think there's ever been a gladiator to match you as for this young man.
Speaker 3:He insists you are Hector Reborn. I was a Turculus. Why?
Speaker 2:doesn't the hero reveal himself and tell us all your real name.
Speaker 3:You do have a name. My name is Gladiator. How dare you show your back to me? You do have a name. My name is gladiator. How dare you show your back to me? Slave will remove your helmet and tell me your name. My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the armies of the North, general of the Felix legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance in this life or the next.
Speaker 1:I'm actually really excited because we're going to be talking about Gladiator, the famous epic Russell Crowe film, just a couple days before Gladiator 2 comes out. So I'm actually really excited about that, because we're going to talk about Gladiator and then obviously I'm going to go see Gladiator 2. So I'm already spoiling a future Surprise Saturday episode. It's going to Gladiator 2, because I love me some Denzel Washington and Patriot Pascal and Gladiator fighting stuff. So I can't wait for that. Lucinda, what is your favorite quote from Casablanca? Because we always end episodes with a quote. So, besides, here's looking at you, kid, because we already said that one.
Speaker 2:Is there another famous quote that you like? Wow, yes, but it's Claude Rains. When he's shutting down the Rick's place because he's been told to by the Nazis and he says why are you closing this down? Rick says to him and he goes because I'm shocked, shocked to find out that there is gambling. And then the guy comes up and says here, here's your weddings. That's my favorite part of the movie.
