Natey & Katy: At the Movies
Natey & Katy are two friends who love movies and love talking about them. Join them on their cinematic journey!
Natey & Katy: At the Movies
Tragic Conclusions and Iconic Performances
What if you found yourself enjoying "The Bachelorette" more than a critically acclaimed classic like "Chinatown"? Join us as Katy wrestles with her mixed feelings about this iconic film noir, fresh from her trip to Scotland. As Natey steps in to clarify the often tragic nature of the genre, we debate whether the film's somber ending signifies a failure or a profound growth for the protagonist. The conversation takes unexpected turns as we compare the love interest trope to the femme fatales of James Bond, and we deeply analyze the villainous character of Noah Cross.
This episode doesn't stop there. We also dissect the film's intricate plot, the powerful performances of Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway, and the slow-burn build-up that pays off in a riveting climax. To wrap up our July series, we switch lanes to discuss the 1980 adaptation of "The Elephant Man." Tune in for cultural insights, entertaining debates, and thoughtful reflections that reveal why these classics continue to resonate.
Hello everyone and welcome to another brand new episode of Nadie and Katie at the Movies. I'm your host, nathan aka Nadie, of course, and with me on today's show is my good friend Katie. Hi Katie, how are you?
Speaker 2:I am. I'm gonna be honest, I'm pretty tired from the Scotland trip, but I wasn't too tired to watch our movie that we're going to record today. But I wasn't too tired to watch our movie that we're going to record today. But yeah, I'm a little if my brain's not firing all the cylinders just know.
Speaker 1:That's why. Also, because by the time we're recording this, it's late at night, and so that could be another factor. But before we talk about this movie, I just wanted to go over a few things for our listeners. So first of all, thank you. If you're listening to the show, thank you so much. One thing that you can do to help us grow our audience is by sharing the show. So if you are literally listening to the show right now, after the show is over, go ahead and share it, tell your friends about it, it and also let them know about a little thing called fan mail that we have, that you can contact us and let us know how we're doing. Say, hi, give us a movie suggestion. That's actually happened before. On a past surprise saturday episode, someone sent a suggestion and we did it on the show. So yeah, we want the audience to grow even more, because you are already awesome for listening, so let somebody else be awesome by letting them know about the show we're talking about today Chinatown.
Speaker 1:Chinatown starring Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway. But before we can talk about it we have to go over the synopsis. A private detective hired to expose an adulterer in 1930s, los angeles finds himself caught up in a web of deceit, corruption and media. Like I said before, chinatown stars jack nicholson, faye dunaway, also john houston and perry lopez, also John Houston and Perry Lopez. So we talked about this movie last episode because we did Dial M for Murder and that is a mystery. And I said, katie, this movie, chinatown, is a film noir, mystery kind of movie, so it might be something that you might enjoy. So let's just get right to it. Did you enjoy Chinatown?
Speaker 2:Eh Eh, it wasn't terrible, but on my way. I watched it on the way to Scotland and then on the way back from Scotland, I watched the movie the Bachelorette and I feel like I enjoyed that a thousand times more. I was just cackling in my seat, um. But yeah, the china charm wasn't wasn't as much of a fan I was really looking forward to because you know, you prepped me and I do also have to say me not having background of film in the same way that you do with theater. I didn't know what a film noir meant. So when I was researching this movie, I just kept saying this is like the best cinematic example of film noir. And then they hinted at film noir and all this is based on it and it's a nod to this and I'm like I have no idea what you're talking about. So maybe I'd appreciate it more if I knew that genre. But can you help me and the listeners understand what film noir is as a genre?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I thank you for making me feel like I'm a movie expert. I do like movies. I enjoy watching them. I wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert, even though that's kind of like. The shtick of the show is that I'm the quote unquote expert. You're the person who just watches movies for fun. Sometimes I feel it's kind of flipped because you do more research than I do.
Speaker 1:But anyway, to answer your question, from my experience from film noir movies, they're kind of like very, not overdramatic, but very like serious tone mystery dramas like Humphrey Bogart. Maltese Falcon is an example of a film noir movie. I guess Casablanca could be kind of film noir and if people are listening I'm probably like no, it's not, but yeah, it's just very serious and it's kind of like a shakespearean tragedy where you know it's a tragedy or you know it's a film noir if the movie has a not very happy ending and well, that, that checks out, that checks out I think we probably want to try to stay away from spoilers for this one, because this one has a very like big spoiler ending, if we talked about it well, it's hard to not talk about it.
Speaker 2:I will not spoil it if you. Here's the thing. I wasn't a huge fan but for anyone listening who may be interested, it was nominated for a gazillion of academy awards. It won an academy award, I mean. So someone else smarter than me thought of appreciated it. So if you want to stop listening now and go watch for yourself, do it.
Speaker 2:Um, but I have to somewhat spoil just the ending sucked. I'm gonna have to start with my negatives. The. The ending is sad and, as as you know, I just like happy movies, so it doesn't mean it was a poorly done ending, it's just not my thing. Um, so you get to watch jack nicholson's character, jake jake goodies, mr goodies go through and you kind of see his character arc develop, which is great, and you see him grow and mature as a person, and then you're just kind of hoping there'd be a reward for that and he just feels like you're bringing him right back down to square one I would actually disagree that he becomes a better person because, for those of you who've never seen this movie, he gets hired by somebody to spy on some, on a husband who's supposedly cheating, finds out that that's not actually the wife, and he actually admits to this character.
Speaker 1:Faye Dunaway's character that he used to work in Chinatown fell in love with a girl that he was supposed to be protecting and then, I'm assuming, got this girl killed and I I'm just going to spoil it. Sorry, just going to spoil it. That's kind of like a foreshadow of what happens in this movie. So to me he doesn't I. I mean I guess he's trying to become a better person by again trying to protect faye dunaway's character, but it's just the same thing that happens again. So to me it's not really a character build. He doesn't really become a different person. He basically just repeats something that he's already done.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing, I think you're hopeful, you're watching a movie and you're hopeful that it will turn around, and that's the problem, and I think that's the whole shtick of the movie is like, well, in Chinatown it doesn't turn around, it's just, it is what it is. So that was my, that was my big negative. I have a one more small negative, um, and I'll go to my positives. So at one point jack nicholson's character gets like a knife to the nose, like not you know, chopped off, but like he gets attacked and for like the second whole half of the movie he has this bandage on his nose. I mean, it's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2:It's to the point to where I was like researching, like did he get in a real accident? Like was there a reason that they like did jack nicholson have an actual cut and so they had to like incorporate in the film because there's no reason again, maybe it's because they're trying to be realistic like this is happening over the course of a few days. I just thought it looked so silly. I did not feel like it was necessary. I don't. I don't mind that it's not medically accurate to have his bandage off the next day because it looks so stupid.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I think it's just supposed to emphasize how corrupt the city is. It's corrupted by the mob. Even some of the cops are corrupted, corrupted. You find out a little bit about that. So I mean, it didn't bother me that much. I think it's probably because in our last episode that was actually the clip that we played to give a little sneak peek of what was going to happen, so to give the listeners a little bit of a heads up. Hey, something happens to this guy's nose.
Speaker 1:So if you watch the movie, it didn't bother me that much and I think it actually silly because I I think what this movie was trying to do because it's jack nicholson and you know he he kind of balances between drama and comedy. Sometimes I think they were doing that with this character, partially with that, partially with, you know, the joke that he makes at the beginning of the movie about Chinaman and stuff. But anyway, yeah, that that didn't really bother me that much. So those are some things that you didn't like. What did you like about this movie, if anything?
Speaker 2:I was going to say, well, I'd like to know what you you didn't like, um, but I would say one thing I really did like was that it truly did surprise me, and that's what I liked about the alfred hitchcock movie.
Speaker 2:This is one where I was intrigued the entire time because I literally didn't know what was going to happen at the end. I do also love that there's some like red herrings is that what it's called? Some like things. They tease, like some of the information that you need at the very end of the movie is given to you like very early on and you're like kind of thinking I need to log that in my mind, but then they run past it. Um, there's a few dead ends. So my head was spinning a lot of the movie and I really did enjoy that.
Speaker 2:Um, the love interest.
Speaker 2:You know it kind of had the James Bond or I guess maybe you'd call the film noir stereotype of like, oh, the love interest is actually going to be the bad guy, or you know it was going to be an evil woman like a black widow, but um, you know, you kind of find out and you're back and forth.
Speaker 2:I mean it's not up until the last five minutes of movie that you're like I don't really know, is she bad or is she not, I have no idea. So I liked that and I really liked you kind of mentioned this earlier that you would like tug on one string and it would start unraveling and unraveling. It was like every for every like question we got answered. There'd be like a thousand more questions we're now trying to figure out. And I really did like that because again, it just kept unraveling, unraveling and he started out as I thought this was an affair thing. Now all of a sudden there's a murder. Now all of a sudden there's a bigger murder. Now all of a sudden there's a water, like a huge corrupt thing, and it just keeps building and he's like I don't get paid enough.
Speaker 1:I thought the acting again with any movie that I appreciate. I thought the performances were really great. I don't think there was a weak link in this movie, as this is something that I mostly say with well-acted movies. There wasn't a weak link. I think Jack Nicholson does a great job. It was kind of hard to take him seriously at first because I've known him from other comedic roles and some not so comedic, like the shining, so it was kind of hard to see him at first as the detective but his character grew on me.
Speaker 1:If a Dunaway does a great job, noah cross, who's played by John Houston, I think comes off as a really creepy who some would probably say is the villain, the real villain of this movie. Some things that you find out about them which again I don't want to spoil, but it's pretty sick what you find out about this guy. It's connection with Faye Dunaway's character Very sick, very twisted, something that I would not have expected in this movie for a film noir. It was just. It was just really really creepy and I think it helped you really dislike the noah cross character. I will say that the pacing at the beginning of the movie was a bit slow. It was like a slow burn, but I think that's kind of part of what you were saying, that, and I guess you were saying that. I was saying that what you learn something and it kind of slowly unravels and then it just goes full speed unraveling all this corrupt crap, and so when it gets to that point it kind of speeds up a little bit and the pacing becomes a little bit better, I think. I think the pacing probably got a little bit better after the nose thing, because after that happens, that's when he wants to find out even more and more and more and more and more about what's going on.
Speaker 1:So was it a movie that I'd be like, hey, I want to watch? Probably not. Is it one of my favorite movies? No, do I appreciate the fact that I had never seen it before and now I've watched it? Yes, I'm glad I watched it and that's again that's what I've liked about this season of our show. Mostly is because a lot of these movies again, and people are going to be like then why are you called the movie expert? A lot of these movies I had never seen before, and this is one of these movies. So I appreciate being able to watch what some people might consider a classic, some people might consider not that great, but it's good to see it from a new, fresh set of eyes.
Speaker 2:To build conclusions off of my personal viewing and it helps you understand some of these actors, like Jack Nicholson, where they came from, and even smaller things like even cultural references. You realize, the more we watch some of these classic movies you're like, oh, I've heard that line, you know, last episode I was talking about a mad TV skit reference. I was like, oh, grace Kelly, I didn't get that reference before. So I do think there's a few quotable lines in this movie and even just the concept that I imagine have probably popped up in other movies since then, in the same way that this was an ode to the film noir movies before it. What are some things that you maybe didn't like? I think you didn't like the slow pacing. Anything stand out from a story standpoint. I mean again, I guess it's film noir. It's supposed to have a negative ending, but I just so what?
Speaker 1:what had happened was last episode. I was looking for a clip to play at the end of our dial in for murder episode, and so I was looking on youtube and I accidentally came across the ending clip. For some reason, they put the ending on youtube as a clip, luckily I I had an idea of what they were showing me, but I wasn't exactly sure who it was. But I was like, oh, did I just ruin the movie? I was just trying to be helpful about playing a clip from the movie.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was very, very upset, but that didn't. I mean that didn't ruin the movie for me. After doing so many Shakespeare tragedies, I'm used to sometimes stories not having a happy ending, and I kind of foreshadowed it, kind of gave it away, when he was in the bed with her, telling this story about his time in Chinatown, and the movie's called Chinatown and one of the last lines in the movie is about the fact that this place is Chinatown. So it's like it wasn't as surprising as I think if you watch it for the very first time in theaters, it probably was really surprising. If you're not really listening, though, like if you're not listening and you're not paying attention no offense to Katie and other people who were surprised by the ending I think if you're not listening, yeah it'll be surprising, but if you can catch the foreshadowing and the constant reference to Chinatown and the corruption all around him, anyway, I mean the ending is not that surprising anyway.
Speaker 2:I mean, the ending is not that surprising. Yeah, well, I think it also helps having an understanding of chinatown, like having a better grasp, because it's not a fictional place. Right, I'm sure it's fictionalized in the movie, but chinatown's a real place and I think the stereotypes from the movie were accurate to chinatown during that time and maybe even chinatown's today. You know, I've been through a few. I think I went to one in LA and then one in New York City. But yeah, I think that's probably another piece of it if I had a greater understanding for the stereotypes, of what goes on and essentially, for those listening, chinatown is essentially what goes on in Chinatown states and Chinatown town stays in chinatown. And maybe you can even also equate that to what they call, like you know, the hood and some neighborhoods where it's like you can get away with crime here because ain't nobody gonna say anything, so no one cares who's shot, no one cares.
Speaker 1:If you're hooking up with people, it's chinatown and good luck getting justice well, I think with that, we should go ahead and rate this movie chinatown. Katie, what would you give chinatown based on our ratings?
Speaker 2:this is tough because it's just not my genre right. Like it's a good movie for what it's supposed to be, I guess. Um, that being said, I have not necessarily a desire to watch it again, nor would I highly recommend it necessarily to any friend friends.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to give it a four out of six, I I'm going to give it a 4.5 out of six. It is a good movie. Jack nicholson does a great job, but the pacing's a bit slow and if you're not a fan of unhappy endings then of course you're not going to like this movie. It's not going to be for you. So that is Chinatown man. I can't believe we're already almost done with July, which I remember. When we first started June I was actually happy because I was like, yay, school's out. And now I'm like, oh, we're almost done with July. That means school's about to start again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, summer goes quick, it does. What are we watching next?
Speaker 1:Well, to end our July, we're going to be talking about a classic 1980 film. Take a listen to this clip.
Speaker 3:How do I look Splendid? You will not look out of place. You look absolutely splendid. Shall we go? Yes, again, I can't tell you how sorry I am for what happened. You see, I had no idea, no idea, really. Please, you mustn't blame yourself, mr Trees, don't worry about me, my friend, I am happy every hour of the day. My life is full. Could I know that I have loved Gained myself? I could not say that were it not for you. Well, and I, you've done so much for me as well.
Speaker 1:thank you, we're talking about the 1980 adaptation of the Elephant man, which is based on the real life of Joseph Merrick, and I'm excited about talking about it. I watched it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure. I have no idea, like I have no earthly idea what to expect about the Elephant man. I saw Water for Elephants and I've seen Dumbo, but I don't know if it's.
Speaker 1:It's definitely not the mixture of the two movies, but that's what we're talking about the last episode of july. And to end this episode, I have a quote from chinatown isn't that something? Middle of a drought and the water, commissioner, drowns only in la.
